Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II

Al Watan Al Arabi: Al Watan Al Arabi: You are preparing to visit Lebanon after having very warmly received Lebanese President Emile Lahoud. What do you hope to achieve at the current political moment and do you see an independent Lebanese role in determining the future of Lebanon?

King Abdullah: Lebanon is a sister Arab country and President Emile Lahoud is a dear brother with whom we have strong relations, and together we will endeavour to bolster and enhance the relations between our two countries in all fields.

We believe that the Arab countries, especially the neighbouring countries, have no alternative but to seriously think about meeting on the numerous common denominators between them and to quickly strive toward a working formula for cooperation and economic integration.

This is because the smaller countries cannot face the major challenges and the burdens of the age alone. As for your question as to who determines the future of Lebanon, my answer is the Lebanese people alone.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The Lebanese government and people are worried that the [peace] negotiations will result in the naturalisation of the Palestinians in the host countries or the refuge countries. Do you think that the final settlement of the Palestinians in Lebanon has become a foregone conclusion or are other alternative solutions still possible?

King Abdullah: The issue of the refugees is a complicated one but I believe that the resolutions of international legitimacy and the UN charters have guaranteed the rights of the refugees and entitled them to the right of return and compensation. As for the issue of final settlement that you are talking about, this matter will crystallise within the framework of the multilateral negotiations. I believe that it is premature to talk about the final picture of this matter.

Al Watan Al Arabi: Is the Jordanian-Palestinian confederation plan possible? In the event this confederation was established, would it be able to absorb the nearly three million Palestinians in the diaspora?

King Abdullah: The issue of the confederation was suggested to us several years ago and the answer at the time was that it is up to the Jordanian and Palestinian peoples to decide of their free will and after the Palestinian people regain their legitimate rights on the Palestinian national soil.

Nothing new has changed regarding both the proposition and our position. As far as we are concerned, the confederation is a formula for unity between two completely independent countries.

On this basis, it would be possible to establish a confederation as a consequence of the establishment of an independent Palestinian state after which the two brotherly peoples would agree on a formula that would unite them on a solution or settlement. We would not under any circumstances agree to act as a means to an end.

Al Watan Al Arabi: There has been a transformation from a semi-complete estrangement to relations of amity and coordination between Syria and Jordan. How do you explain the restoration of the Syrian relations with Jordan and what has this yielded thus far? How do you hope to benefit from it with regard to the negotiations?

King Abdullah: Our relations with Syria are very strong and firm. This is the normal situation and anything else would be only an exception. I have found that His Excellency President Hafeth Assad has a firm resolve on the need for us to work together toward achieving the goals and objectives to which the peoples of the two countries aspire and not to dwell on the former situation.

This is in complete harmony with our position, which calls for enhancing the spirit of cooperation and understanding and not allowing disagreement and differences in viewpoints and orientations to affect the essence of this historical brotherly relationship.

We are now working together toward formulating a future that promises some integration in several fields and also continuous coordination, consultation, and fruitful cooperation that would achieve the wishes and aspirations of the two peoples.

Al Watan Al Arabi: How would you describe your personal relationship with President Hafeth Assad and Staff Colonel Dr. Bashar Assad? How do you view the scopes of Syrian-Jordanian cooperation in the future?

King Abdullah: As I have told you, my relationship with President Hafeth Assad is a brotherly one and we have every amity and appreciation for him in view of his great services for his people and his constant support for the causes and future of the nation.

As for my brother, Bashar Assad, I see in him the character of a young man who has openness to modern issues and the concerns and aspirations of his nation. There is no doubt that he has benefited a great deal from being close to his father who is renowned for his political wisdom, extensive experience, and far-sighted vision.

All of this has also qualified him to play a major role in serving his country and people. The future that awaits the relations between the two countries holds the promise of cooperation and the establishment of closer relations of integration to which the two peoples had aspired during the past decades.

Al Watan Al Arabi: There is some kind of Syrian hope placed upon the person and role of President Clinton and also another on the person and role of Ehud Barak. What is the margin of realism and hope in this and what wagering?

King Abdullah: I believe that the efforts and real endeavours by US President Bill Clinton in supporting the peace process and clarifying the viewpoints of the concerned sides deserve every appreciation and respect. If the Syrian brothers are currently wagering on the position of President Clinton in activating the peace process, they base this on the role that the US president and administration have played during the past years in giving impetus to the peace process and achieving tangible progress.

Furthermore, the Syrians are not the only ones who have pinned their hope on Mr. Barak but all the peace forces have also done so, especially at this stage and under the current favourable atmosphere for adopting positive steps toward achieving the desired peace.

Al Watan Al Arabi: Would peace between Syria and Israel mean drawing the curtain on the Arab-Israeli conflict? Or is normalisation a separate and protracted battle?

King Abdullah: The kind of peace to which the peoples of the region aspire is a just and comprehensive peace that restores the rights to their owners. It is the kind of peace that includes the fulfilment of the aspirations of the Palestinian people in regaining their legitimate rights and establishing their independent state on the Palestinian national soil and that also restores the occupied Syrian and Lebanese territories.

This is the kind of peace that would ultimately mean the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict. If all of this was achieved, why should there not be cooperation and normalisation? We have witnessed several conflicts in the world that resulted in the establishment of cooperation between the parties to these conflicts. The time has come for the peoples of this region to concentrate on development and on the launch of an economic renaissance that would dispel the dangers of poverty and hunger that are threatening them.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The future of the Iraqi regime is being discussed in international circles. How do you view the stability of Iraq and its political future? Is there a common Jordanian-Syrian concept in this regard?

King Abdullah: The position of Jordan on the difficult issue of Iraq has been clear in that there has to be an end to the Iraqi tragedy. For the Iraqi people have suffered a great deal and the time has come to end the long night they have experienced. However, the issue of Iraq has become an international issue and the solution to it does not lie with Jordan or Syria.

We hope to see an Arab-international solution that puts an end to the plight of the Iraqi people, whose heritage has enriched human civilisation and given the world a great deal. The world must provide the Iraqi people with the opportunity to have a decent life and it must recognise their cultural and social contributions.

We are against all schemes that aim at undermining the integrity and unity of Iraq and its social fabric. We also hope that the Iraqi leadership and the concerned parties will pursue the course that would return Iraq to the international community and end the tragedy of its people.

Al Watan Al Arabi: There are those who say that if a just peace between the Arabs and Israel is not achieved soon, the extremists from the fundamentalist movements would destroy the moderate societies and also the democratic orientation in the region. How are the relations between Jordan and the fundamentalists and are the fundamentalists capable of such destruction?

King Abdullah: Everyone knows that a just and comprehensive peace is closely tied to security and stability. We are all eager to achieve this peace. If we cannot, the entire region would once again experience the kind of despair and frustration from which the peoples of this region have greatly suffered.

The fundamentalists are present everywhere. The absence of justice and freedom and the usurpation of land, the capabilities of peoples, and the freedom of individuals all encourage violence.

However, if you refer to fundamentalism in Jordan, there is no such thing as a fundamentalist problem. Islamic movements have existed and participated in political life in total freedom and like the rest of the political parties have always been included in our democratic system.

Moreover, the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic movements have been in parliament and the executive authority as well as all other government institutions. The failure to achieve justice and depriving the people of the opportunity to lead a decent life in security and stability could lead to destruction, as you have said.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The Iranian presence in Lebanon falls within the framework of an Iranian equation for expansion toward the Mediterranean. Would the Arab-Israeli peace dictate a new role for Iran and how do you view the features of this role?

King Abdullah: Iran is an independent country and a dear neighbour. We must recognise its regional role and political weight. Cooperation between Iran and the Arab countries has to be based on mutual respect and cooperation. We should all work toward a relationship that s based on cooperation and that fulfils the aspirations and hoes of both the Arab and Iranian peoples.

Al Watan Al Arabi: Relations between the Gulf countries and Iran will inevitably depend on a settlement of the issue of the three islands [Abu Musa, Greater and Lesser Tunb]. Do you think that such a settlement is forthcoming soon?

King Abdullah: I believe that understanding and dialogue and departure from the policies of hegemony, which have only brought destruction to our region, are sufficient for rebuilding trust and resolving pending issues. Our brothers in the UAE have put forward their just case on the issue of the islands. I believe that our brothers in Iran have to listen to the UAE's demands and hold a dialogue on the basis of an agenda and a specific timetable.

This is the way to achieve an appropriate solution for this issue. It has to be one that is in harmony with international legitimacy, which rejects occupation and seizure of land by force.

Al Watan Al Arabi: How would you describe your relationship with Yasser Arafat and on what do you agree and disagree at this stage?

King Abdullah: President Yasser Arafat has done a great deal for his people. He has suffered a great deal for the sake of the Palestinian cause. He spent his entire life for the sake of his people and his country. The world must be fair to Palestinians and appreciate their sacrifices. We in Jordan are doing our utmost to support our Palestinian brothers and their leadership.

We see eye to eye with the Palestinian leadership on most of the issues regarding suitable methods for the restoration of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people. However, if there were the occasional disagreement on some matters, this does not affect our relationship and our belief in their just cause.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The return of Palestinian factions to the PLO fold is accelerating. Does this reconciliation mean that Arafat was right and the Palestinian rejection camp was and continues to be without a clear political message?

King Abdullah: We are much happier every time that our Palestinian brothers find a wider consensus to agree on. This is because the unity of the Palestinian people bolsters their demands and earns them world respect for their just cause. Constructive and committed dialogue that is devoid of accusations would solve the issues of the nation.

It is also the beginning of the road toward achieving the main objective of formulating the future of the Palestinian people and attaining their wishes and aspirations.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The water issue is a complicated one in the peace negotiations. Turkey and Israel are undeclared partners in the water issue. If it were true that whether Israel is a greater or smaller Israel it would still have its rivers, how do you view the solution for this problem within the framework of a joint Arab decision? Can economic and water cooperation be separated from political issues?

King Abdullah: Water is a complicated issue that becomes more complicated as time passes. There can be no successful solution for this problem without regional cooperation. We live in a region where the increase in population is one of the most rapid in the world. With a greater emphasis on development and economic revival, the problem becomes more acute. More importantly, no country can alone solve the water problem. This makes it incumbent upon all of us to work together as a region and increase cooperation in order to be able to find new water sources.

Many proposals for solving the water problem in the region were put forward. However, none of them have crystallised so far.

Al Watan Al Arabi: What is the extent of cooperation that exists between Jordan and Turkey? At what point does the Turkish role intersect the Jordanian role at the regional level and also at the Islamic and NATO levels?

King Abdullah: Turkey is first an Islamic country and second is a neighbour and our relationship with Turkey is based on these two things. Relations between the two countries do not deviate from the framework of bilateral cooperation toward achieving the interests of the two countries and the region in which we live. Our relations and interest with any country in the world would not be at the expense of any other country.

Al Watan Al Arabi: Jordan is the last natural barrier that separates Israel from Mecca, Medina, and the riches of the Arab world. Does this fact dictate distinguished relations between Jordan and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and how do you view the future of these relations?

King Abdullah: We have strong and brotherly relations with the Saudi brothers that have been entrenched during the past decades. Moreover, the two countries have deep-rooted relations of cooperation that represent a model for what the relationship between brothers should be. Saudi Arabia has stood alongside Jordan during difficult circumstances.

Saudi Arabia under the leadership of brother King Fahd Bin Abdulaziz has been at the forefront of Arab countries that supported and assisted Jordan at various levels. His honourable positions with the Arab and Islamic countries are respected in the Arab and Islamic worlds. We expect to increase and expand cooperation in various fields over the years.

The relationship between Jordan and Saudi Arabia is too deep and strong to be linked to an event or a period because it is one between brothers.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The United States is concerned with the stability of Jordan and its role in the peace process. Defense News cited US reports about supplying advanced military equipment to enhance Jordanian defence capabilities. What is the truth about this deal?

King Abdullah: We appreciate the support of the United States, its support of the defence capabilities of Jordan and its assistance to the Jordanian armed forces. Jordan has contributed a great deal for the sake of the peace process. His Majesty the Late King Hussein worked for the cause of peace as he was fighting illness during the last days of his life.

I believe that the United States, just as Europe, is working hard to assist Jordan whether by reducing its debt burden or by extending economic and military assistance. I believe that the world should appreciate the role of Jordan and its major contribution for the sake of the peace issue and in preserving security and stability in this turbulent part of the world.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The Jordanian army has been the main pillar in the stability of the Kingdom for half a century. What are the other political, economic, and social pillars and what are the priorities of your programme in power on the eve of the next century?

King Abdullah: In addition to the important role of the Jordanian armed forces in preserving the stability of the Kingdom throughout the past decades, the major role played by His Majesty the late King and his political wisdom must be taken into account. Jordan's political openness and respect for international charters and good neighbourly relations are all additional factors. Moreover, it has also been at the forefront of the Arab peoples in defending the causes of the nation and its endeavours to bolster joint Arab action and has paved the way for political pluralism.

All these factors have contributed to enhancing stability and preserving the accomplishments and capabilities of Jordan. Our priority for the next stage is the economic dimension and enhancing the role of the private sector and affecting a qualitative change that would qualify Jordan as we enter the next century. We have now started to provide the private sector with the opportunity to assume its role in the economic renaissance by amending legislation that is conducive to economic openness and which would attract Arab investment to Jordan.

Al Watan Al Arabi: The relationship between Jordan and the holy city of Jerusalem is more than just a formal and neighbourhood relationship. It is an issue that is connected to the Islamic, Arab, and pan-Arab message of Jordan. How do you envisage the future of Jerusalem and the Jordanian role in defining this future?

King Abdullah: The role of Jordan in patronage of the holy shrines in the city of Jerusalem had been based on the historical legitimacy of its leadership. It had also been based on the role of the Hashemites in looking after the holy places and in securing access to them since the days of the Covenant of Caliph Umar ibn Al Khattab. The position of Jordan on the future of the holy city was expressed during the reign of the late King Hussein that Jerusalem is an occupied city and all that applies to the rest of the occupied territories also applies to it.

Thus, the position of Jordan is that a certain formula has to be achieved that would enable the monotheistic believers free access to the holy sites in this city. Moreover, the Washington Declaration noted the role of Jordan in the determination of the future of Jerusalem. When we talk about Jerusalem it is part of our commitment and our duty toward our nation and part of our commitment to support and assist the Palestinian brothers. We do not have any ambition or any ends for ourselves. The Palestinian brothers are the owners of the right to speak about Jerusalem and participate in determining its future as an occupied Palestinian city.

Al Watan Al Arabi: On 8 September 1998, Jordan inaugurated the first border crossing with Israel. What has happened since that date in the Jordanian-Israeli relations? Is making peace more difficult than making war?

King Abdullah: When Jordan proceeded on the path of peace that step was part of an Arab consensus on this option and the vision was that it should be a comprehensive and just peace in order to ensure its continuation. On this basis, my late father His Majesty King Hussein steered Jordan toward peace with Israel and a treaty was signed after decades of conflict and wars which only resulted in eviction and destruction and the loss of more Arab land. The late king wanted to make real and comprehensive peace not only between governments but also between the peoples of both countries. He wanted the peace that would enable people in this part of the world to exercise their normal role in security and stability.

We had hoped that relations with Israel would proceed to a higher level than in past years, especially after the arrival of the Netanyahu government, which halted the peace process and placed obstacles in its path. Of course, this had an adverse impact on Jordanian-Israeli relations.

Now however, and after the formation of a new government in Israel under Mr. Ehud Barak, there are renewed hopes of the possibility of taking the peace process back to its correct track. There are also renewed hopes for the return of the occupied Arab territories to their rightful owners. There are now renewed hopes of the establishment of relations of cooperation between Israel and the Arab countries on the basis of mutual respect and taking into consideration the interests of the peoples and countries in the region.