Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II
ABC: Thank you for being with us, Your Majesty.
King Abdullah: Thank you, George. Nice to speak to you again.
ABC: Yes, sir. I know that the meeting with Chairman Arafat and Secretary Powell just finished, so you may not have been briefed yet by either the secretary or Chairman Arafat. Have you had any contact?
King Abdullah: Well, our reports seem that the meeting was--was positive, and that's what we were hoping for. And I presume that the later meeting with Prime Minister Sharon will be, in other words, a momentum in getting both sides together. So we're keeping our fingers crossed at this stage.
ABC: Do you agree with Chairman Arafat's reported position that there must be a pull-out of Israel from the West Bank before he takes any new action?
King Abdullah: Well, again, I don't know the specifics of what's going on between Secretary of State Powell and Arafat, but definitely we've been saying for several weeks now that the Israeli Army must pull out of the villages and cities as quickly as possible. I know that we have
reports of some pull-outs, but we also have reports of Israeli incursions into other areas of the West Bank. So, the quicker the Israeli army pulls out, I think the better it is for all of us.
ABC: You've described this as a make-or-break mission for the United States and for Secretary Powell. What, specifically, must Secretary Powell do to succeed?
King Abdullah: Well, to succeed, he needs to be able to get both the Palestinians and the Israelis to move forward. And if he comes out empty-handed and goes back to the United States, I'm concerned that that allows the Israeli Army, again, to--to move through the West Bank with impunity, and we're very concerned on the humanitarian side and the political implications if that happens.
ABC: You say you don't want him to return empty-handed and you want a pull-out from Israel. The Israelis are demanding from Chairman Arafat, for example, that he turn over people who are--who are in his compound who are suspects in the murder of the Israeli tourism minister last year. Will the--will the Palestinians meet that condition, and should they meet that condition?
King Abdullah: Well, I believe that is what is being discussed at the moment as sort of the baby steps, so to speak, between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And I hope that, from the positive reports from Secretary of State Powell that I think they must have overcome the initial obstacles that the Israelis and Palestinians have. Now we need to be able to get beyond that, to de-escalating the violence and moving back to the peace table. So let's see what happens in the next 24 hours.
ABC: Your--your foreign minister said the other day that for this really to succeed, the United States has to put forward a comprehensive peace plan with a specific timetable. How would that work?
King Abdullah: Well, this is what we're talking about. This is not just the issue of Israelis and Palestinians. Again, we have to remind the world that only three weeks ago, the Arab world unanimously offered an olive branch to Israel for comprehensive peace, normalisations with
Israel, as well as, obviously, the freedom and a future state for the Palestinians. So there need to be some concurrent activity, not only getting the Israelis and the Palestinians to move forward, but a comprehensive plan that actually solves the problem of instability and security once and for all. In other words, peace in our region. And we need to have an umbrella to be able to do that. We hope that--the only, you know, unfortunately, the only country that can make that happen and bring it together is the United States. So we see, I hope, a movement on the Israeli-Palestinian flank, but at the same time we need to look at the overall picture, the future of peace and prosperity in the Middle East, as an after-effect --the position in Beirut in offering an olive branch to Israel.
ABC: Prime Minister Sharon has said he's willing to talk to the Arab world about that olive branch, and meet with the Arab world, but not with Chairman Arafat. In your view, can this process succeed if Ariel Sharon will not meet with Yasser Arafat?
King Abdullah: Well, again, I--I can't see how any country in--in the world chooses whether they want to discuss or pick the leader of the other side. Whether Prime Minister Sharon likes or--or respects Arafat or not, Arafat is the sole representative, he is the symbol of the Palestinian people. And to say he is, for example, irrelevant, really doesn't make much sense. I mean, Prime Minister Sharon is probably the most unpopular prime minister Israel has ever had in the Middle East, but the Arabs don't feel that Sharon is irrelevant. You have to deal with Arafat. And I can't see how you can pick and choose your opponents at will.
ABC: But if Ariel Sharon sticks to his current position and doesn't meet with Arafat and these talks break down, can your peace treaty with Israel survive?
King Abdullah: Well, I think we're looking at even a bigger picture of that. Again, our message, not only to--to the West, but to the Israeli people, is peace with the Arabs. And it's not just the Palestinians that can guarantee the security of Israel, it's the rest of the Arab world. And so I believe that what we--we said in Beirut is to reach out to the Israeli public. Bringing a Palestinian state into existence is the quickest way for future security and prosperity of the Israelis because it means that the Arabs can also guarantee that olive branch. Again, what we hear from certain Israeli circles is that this is a security issue, and it's never been a security issue, it's a political one. People under occupation for 35 years that want to have their rights, their dignity, their future and ability to-to decide their fate, and that's what we're talking about. And unfortunately, I think we're still in the trenches, so to speak, on--on the process and we're not looking at the bigger picture. We're trying to reach out to the world and say, `The Arabs want to have peace.
ABC: But sir, if Israel doesn't respond...
King Abdullah: Sorry?
ABC: If Israel doesn't respond, will you have to downgrade relations?
King Abdullah: Well, I--well, you know, let's put it this way, I think it would be a – it - would be a horrific shame and a tremendous blow if Israel doesn't respond. And I hope that common sense and for the majority of people who want peace, who want stability, who want a future for their kids, whether they Israeli or Arabs, will not ignore the position and that Israel, by its people, will ask that contact with the Palestinians and the Arabs to bring peace and prosperity to the area is--is their main agenda.
ABC: Sir, you're also facing great pressure at home. There have been more than, I think, 400 anti-Israel protests in Jordan over the last couple of weeks, and on Friday you had to put out your security forces and police to block a large planned protest. Are you
concerned that if you crack down too hard on these protesters, they might turn on you?
King Abdullah: Well, you know, we're not--the--the funny thing is the 400-odd demonstrations that you've had, those have all been, the majority of them, have been allowed by the government. We've had thousands of demonstrations in support of--of the Palestinians since the start of the intifada. The problem that the government has had are those very limited demonstrations, or the plan of demonstrations, that were illegal, that sole purpose is to bring destruction in the street to try and get a bloody conflict between the government and the opposition groups. Those--I think any country would understand they're not allowed. But we have been allowing demonstrations and I honestly said to--to my people several days ago, `I'm angry. My people are angry. You know, we all feel like demonstrating against what is happening in Israel.' So I think we're all united on that. Where we draw the line is those elements that want to use it an excuse to create damage to--to--to our society. That's where we draw the line.
ABC: Sir, it's been reported that White House officials are annoyed that you described Chairman Arafat the other day as an all-time hero in the Middle East. If Chairman Arafat is indeed a hero right now and is so powerful, how can he not prevent a suicide bombing the day before he's supposed the meet with Secretary Powell?
King Abdullah: Well, I don't know why people in the administration would be annoyed that--what I said is true. I mean, whether they like it or not, Arafat has become the most popular figure in the Arab streets, and I'm sure they may be equally annoyed to find out that Prime Minister Sharon, I'm sure, in front of his public, is also extremely popular. But through that popularity gives the chance for both leaders to take stronger positions. And I--I believe that Arafat being in this very strong position in--in front of his public, the Palestinian people and the Arab world, allows him some room to manoeuvre. At the same time, I believe that that allows Arafat--sorry, Prime Minister Sharon, the ability to--to manoeuvre from, I think, a corner that he might have painted himself into, in being able to move the process forward, de-escalating the violence and getting Israeli's and Palestinians together and pushing for the--the process of peace that is so important to the success of Colin Powell's visit at the moment.
ABC: Finally sir, if a young Jordanian girl came to you and said she wanted to strap a bomb to her chest and head to Jerusalem, what would you tell her?
King Abdullah: I would tell her – as I would tell anybody, and I believe on behalf of all Jordanians – we never ever have condoned the killing of innocent people. I have said on more than one occasion, and I believe President Arafat has also said, that that terrorism or terror is something that we stand against. I don't believe, personally, that the suicide bombs are doing any justice. I think they're being completely detrimental to--to the Palestinian cause. But again, we have to go beyond the issue. The issue, really, what is it that makes people do that? I believe it's the desperation of people under occupation for 35 years that have no hope to move forward. So let's get beyond who did what, where -- the problems are with terror. Terror has been across the board. Innocent people are--are giving their lives, unfortunately, over the past several weeks. The problem is a political problem, one that needs to be solved. You cannot have security if you don't have peace. And the president of the United States said, ‘How can you have security if you don't have peace?' We need to have peace. We need to have a political solution for the Palestinians. That is the only way that all of us are going to live in a secure and safe environment. So let's get away of who did what, and--and--and who is to blame, and remember that it's people under occupation, their rights need to be addressed. There needs to be a future Palestinian state, and that is the only way to solve the problem.
ABC: Your Majesty, thanks very much.
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