Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II

CNN: It's noon in Washington; 9 a.m. in Los Angeles; 7 p.m. in Amman, Jordan; 8 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us for “Late Edition.” We'll have my exclusive interview with Jordan's King Abdullah about Iraq, the war on terrorism and more. That's coming up just in a moment.

While the United States certainly has a vested interest in Iraq's immediate and long-term future, Jordan, its neighbour, clearly has a lot more at stake. Just a short while ago, I spoke with Jordan's King Abdullah about Iraq, the Jordanian militant believed to be behind many of the terrorist attacks there, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and much more.

CNN: Your Majesty, thanks very much for joining us. Welcome back to “Late Edition.” Let's get right to a key issue at hand. Is Jordan prepared at this point to dispatch troops to Iraq, your neighbour, in order to help this new interim government?

King Abdullah: Well, Wolf, as I've always said, I don't think that Jordan is the right country, nor any of the countries that surround Iraq, because I believe that we can't work with transparency. We would all have sort of personal agendas. Therefore, I don't think that we are the right people, morally, to commit to Iraqi security.

But at the same time, this Iraqi government needs 110 per cent support from all of us in the international community. So when the question was asked as a theoretical, if the Iraqi government was to ask of our support, it would be difficult for us to say no, even though I don't think we are the right people.

CNN: Well, I'm still a little bit confused. Why wouldn't Jordan be appropriate? You have good relations with the new prime minister, Iyad Allawi. This is a neighbour of yours. You want to see stability and security in Iraq as much as anyone.

King Abdullah: Absolutely, and you know, from a practical point of view, you know, we want to be there to share in the dangers that Iraq is going through. The question really isn't that. We have our troops committed in Afghanistan and in hot spots all over the world. But we also have a history with Iraq, as does Syria, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

So the question morally is: Would it be difficult for us to help the Iraqis by committing troops and not stay out of internal politics? And I thought that there are countries further away that would be better suited than Jordan.

CNN: Because there are many US lawmakers who have lamented the fact that there are really no Muslim troops serving as peacekeepers, as part of the US-led coalition force in Iraq -- no Arab forces, for that matter, as well. And what message does that send, that lack of Muslim and Arab forces part of the international coalition?

King Abdullah: Well, after that statement that was attributed to me that came out several weeks ago, we immediately got other Arab and Muslim countries that were prepared to commit to Iraq's stability, but not the countries of the region.

It's not we don't want to share in the dangers. It's just, again, it's a moral point of view that I think that, you know, we're just not the right people.

But again, it would be an awkward, difficult position for Jordan if the Iraqi government, who I don't think will ask for commitment of its neighbours, were to ask. It would be difficult for us to say no.

CNN: Do you have confidence in the interim prime minister, Iyad Allawi, and the interim president, Ghazi Al Yawner?

King Abdullah: I have to say that I've only met the president at Sea Island several weeks ago. I have yet to meet the prime minister of Iraq. I hope to be doing that tomorrow. But from all I've heard, that the Iraqi prime minister is very courageous, very capable. And I think that the new interim government, we are very fortunate with the courageous people that have been picked.

We have something very good to work with, but again, we can't let them down. The international community has to give them all the support they can to face the immense challenges and hurdles that are challenging the future of Iraqi stability.

CNN: The prime minister, Iyad Allawi, today authorised the US-led military force to go after what's being described as a safe house of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist operating in Iraq in Fallujah. Supposedly 12 people, including some women and children, were killed.

Do you support these kinds of offensive actions that are designed to go after Abu Musab al-Zarqawi?

King Abdullah: Well, I think that in counterterrorism and intelligence community, as opposed to sitting back and waiting for the terrorist to hit you, you have to go after them. Now, the style and the manner that you do that, obviously when there's collateral damage, then that's something that should be reviewed.

But to take the fight to the terrorists? Yes, I think that is correct, and one that should be pursued. But again, sort of laser- guided bombs into buildings that might affect citizens and innocent people, you have to be very careful how you make those judgments.

CNN: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, as you well know, of course, better than anyone, is a Jordanian. How did he get to this point in his life, where he is literally the most wanted man in Iraq right now? What led him from Jordan to Iraq?

King Abdullah: Well, I mean, it's a long history, but he was basically involved in criminal gangs. He was basically a street thug -- that's probably the best way I can describe it -- who then found his way to Afghanistan to fight sort of with the mujahedeen. And he's now in Iraq.

Although I must say that, I think, you know, you say that he's the most wanted man in Iraq. I think that the press have made him much more capable, much smarter and much more of a threat than actually he really is.

Having said that, we are working as part of the international community to track Zarqawi down, and hopefully the net is closing in on him.

CNN: Do you have any doubt that he personally was responsible for the assassination of the American diplomat in Amman, Lawrence Foley, in 2002?

King Abdullah: No, he's definitely behind that killing and other criminal acts. The latest one was the attempted chemical bombings in our city several months ago that we managed to foil before he was successful.

CNN: But why do you -- and I don't know if this is a correct word -- diminish his overall threat level in Iraq right now, when everyone else seems to suggest that he is really the number one terrorist threat in Iraq?

King Abdullah: Because when we listen to the press, all they talk about is Zarqawi, but it's a bit more complicated than that. There is a lot of different elements inside of Iraq. There are extremists from different factions. There are extremists sort of from the old regime that are holding out. We've got foreign fighters that are not affiliated toward him, as well as the makeup of the ethnic groups inside of Iraq that all are vying for power.

So he is one, maybe a sort of a strong element, but he's one or part of a larger group of resistance that Iraq is facing.

CNN: There were two polls that were done, questions that were done earlier this year in Jordan. The Pew Research poll asked these two questions. They were done in February and March, of Jordanians.

Very disturbing answers to Americans: Are suicide bombings justifiable against Americans and Westerners in Iraq? Seventy per cent of the Jordanians who responded said yes.

And the other question, very disturbing to Americans: After Saddam Hussein, are the Iraqi people better or worse off, the capture of Saddam Hussein? The 70 per cent of Jordanians said worse off.

First question, do you have any sense that those attitudes have changed since the transfer of power back to Iraq at the end of June?

King Abdullah: Well, again, you have to be careful how you assess polls in there. We've seen polling questions asked before in Jordan. I think the overwhelming majority of Jordanians are against suicide bombings when they are towards the east of Jordan or toward the West, especially when it involves the loss of innocent life.

As for the future of Iraq, I think what disturbed all of us in the international community was the level of instability right after the military or the war phase supposedly was over.

And the nightly visions that Jordanians see on the news of the death count not only to coalition forces but to many, many Iraqi citizens, whether they are serving the government, the police, or innocent civilians, gives the impression that, you know, there was stability with Saddam. There isn't at the moment.

But again, it's a country in transition. Our hope is that with this new interim government, with a very strong, capable prime minister and a team, that they will be able to fight this challenge of bringing law and order back to Iraq.

With a new Iraqi government in the process now, it would be difficult for these extremists to continue targeting Iraqi civilians and personnel, in the name of targeting coalition forces. At the end of the day, I think there will be a natural reaction from the Iraqi population to say, who are you killing? You are killing our own brothers and sisters.

And so as this government settles in, as security is being addressed, which Prime Minister Allawi is taking as his foremost challenges, you'll see a shift inside of the society, that saying, look, at the end of the day, these extremists are just hurting us. And that reflection will become more understood in the Middle East, where they will see that these extremists that are not basically there for coalition, they are trying to use Iraq as an instable ground for breeding more extremism, is detrimental not only to the future of Iraq, but to all of us in the region.

CNN: A question on Saddam Hussein and his trial that is scheduled at some point down the road. As you know, two of his daughters are still in Amman, Jordan, where you are right now. Several of his lawyers have been based in Amman as well. Do you have confidence in the Iraqi justice system, that they will be able to do a fair job with Saddam Hussein?

King Abdullah: I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to the new Iraqi government. Again, as I said, I've been thoroughly impressed by the president, the prime minister and many of the ministers that have been brought into positions of authority there. And I believe that, you know, this is the period where Iraq strengthens its institutions, and obviously the judicial one is one of the main important ones. And I do hope that we do give this government the benefit of the doubt, that they will abide by the rule of law, and justice will be served.

CNN: Ahmed Chalabi has come under some criticism, significant criticism here in the United States. He's wanted in Jordan for corruption, for scandals. What is your current thinking of Ahmed Chalabi right now?

King Abdullah: Well, I think that you'll see from coalition statements and the interim government more allegations of improprieties and corruption linked to Ahmed Chalabi. He has always contested the problem with Jordan as being a political one, and that's never been the case. It's been a judicial one. He embezzled people's funds, not government funds. The same happened in Lebanon and elsewhere in the world.

And I think that it's becoming more and more clear to those in Iraq that there is a big question mark over Chalabi's head, and it's not directed because of Chalabi and Jordan, it's because of Chalabi himself.

CNN: Do you have confidence in Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat, who is facing a major crisis right now, the resignation of his prime minister, Ahmed Qureia?

King Abdullah: Well, I really do hope that the prime minister doesn't resign, because it would only weaken the institution, at a time where we really need to be able to move on security, where Arafat has to deal with the Israelis and the Egyptians and, obviously part of the roadmap, to bring in the new security phase that is necessary for the roadmap to move forward.

If the prime minister, as part of what we hope is the new institutions of government in the Palestinian society, has handed in his resignation, then we're running out of candidates -- Abu Mazen, a very capable man, had tried, had given up. If Abu Ala gives up on Monday, as is a possibility, then this will be a serious blow to all of us that are trying to push the process forward, and I think will reflect very negatively on President Arafat himself.

CNN: It looks like almost anarchy is breaking out in Gaza, in the midst of an Israeli plan to withdraw unilaterally over the next year or so.

King Abdullah: And this is why institutions of Palestinian government need to be strengthened, and President Arafat and the Palestinian government need to be able to tackle these issues of building institutions as quickly as possible. And I think that maybe what's happening in Gaza, a street reaction will hopefully be a wake-up call to many of those in Palestinian institutions of government that they need to address these problems and address them now.

CNN: Do you welcome the decision by the Labor Party in Israel to open discussions with the Likud-led government about forming a new, so-called National Unity Government in Israel?

King Abdullah: Well, listen, I hope that these discussions are going to give more flexibility to the Israelis to deal with the issues of the roadmap.

At the moment, you know, we're working on baby steps of moving the process along, basically on security. If the formation of a new government allows more interaction between the Israelis, the Palestinians, and the rest of us in the international community to move the roadmap along, obviously that would be a positive thing. But, you know, we have to wait and see and keep our fingers crossed.

CNN: There has been some suggestion that Egypt should be ready to play a significant role, a greater role in trying to deal with the situation in Gaza, given its historic responsibility there. And Jordan, perhaps, should play a more significant role in the West Bank.

Is Jordan ready to play some new and more assertive role in trying to deal with the situation in the West Bank?

King Abdullah: Well, we haven't been officially asked. And I think that you have to keep these things in context. The Egyptians and the Israelis and the Palestinians, under the umbrella of the Quartet, are now dealing with the issues on how to hand security and sovereignty to the Palestinians. So you see an Egyptian role.

Depending on how successful that is, then there may be a discussion on what Jordan can provide in helping provide training to Palestinian security forces. Now, we did this in the early ‘90s, when I was commander of special forces. We did train Iraqi policemen under the United Nations umbrella to be able to go into the West Bank and be able to take care of their own streets.

And so the discussions about that are being aimed at Jordan is basically reviving what happened in the mid-'90s to try and, again, provide instruction and training of Palestinians in Jordan to be able to go into the West Bank and take care of their own responsibilities.

CNN: I just want to clarify one point. You said you were training Iraqis to go into the West Bank?

King Abdullah: Sorry, what I meant: the Palestinians.

CNN: Palestinians, right. I just wanted to clarify that point.

A final question on Iran. There is a 9/11 commission report that's going to be coming out shortly, suggesting that at least eight, maybe 10 of the hijackers of 9/11 passed through Iran at some point on their way to the United States. Is Iran part of this Al Qaeda network as far as Jordanian information is concerned?

King Abdullah: I would find that very surprising. This is the first that I've heard that there were 9/11 findings that linked Iran to some of the hijackers. This is new to me. And I'm sorry I don't have any answers. Initially, I would say I find that very, very surprising. But I don't have any more information to go on at this moment.

CNN: Fair enough. Now, Your Majesty, thanks very much for joining us. Always good to have you back here on CNN and “Late Edition.”

King Abdullah: Thank you, Wolf.