Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II
Becky Anderson:
Absolute pleasure to have you. I want to talk about why we are here and the significance of this site. But I do want to start with your speech at the UNGA this year, because I think it is very pertinent to what we are going to discuss. You began your address by saying there are alarm bells, can you just reflect on 2022?
His Majesty King Abdullah II:
Jerusalem, we have always believed, is a city that should bring us all together. But unfortunately, it is used by extremists on all sides to create conflict and violence. And the violence really did pick up in the spring. We are the custodians of both the Christian and Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem, my concern is that there are challenges that the churches are facing from policies on the ground. If we continue to use Jerusalem as a soapbox for politics, things can get out of control really, really quickly.
Anderson:
You described Christianity in Jerusalem as under fire. Can you just explain a little further?
King Abdullah II:
We are fortunate in this country and in Jerusalem to have the oldest Arab Christian community in the world. They have been here for 2,000 years. Over the past several years, we are seeing that they have become under pressure as a community, so the numbers are dropping, which is, I think, an alarm bell to all of us.
Anderson:
There are fears of a third intifada possibly on the horizon. How concerned are you about that prospect?
King Abdullah II:
We have to be concerned about a next intifada. And if that happens, that is a complete breakdown of law and order, and one that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians will benefit from. And I think there is a lot of concern from all of us in the region, including those in Israel, that are on our side on this issue to make sure that doesn’t happen. That is a flash or tinderbox that if it flashes is something I don’t think we will be able to walk away from in the near future.
Anderson:
Benjamin Netanyahu is back in power. Jordanian commentators describe that result as Jordan’s worst nightmare. Is it?
King Abdullah II:
At the end of the day, the Israeli people have the right to pick whoever they want to lead them. And I think we are all big boys here. And looking at the larger picture, we are all prepared to move on. So, we will work with anybody and everybody, as long as we can bring people together.
Anderson:
As Custodian of those sites, do you believe the status quo and your role is threatened?
King Abdullah II:
So you are always going to get those people that will try and push that, and that is a concern. But I don’t think those individuals are just under the Jordanian microscope, they are under an international microscope. So you know, we have learnt as we always say, living between Iraq and a hard place, that, you know, this is just another Tuesday for us. If people want to get into a conflict with us, we are quite prepared. I always like to believe, that let us look at the glass half full, but we have certain red lines. And if people want to push those red lines then we will deal with that. But I have to believe that there is a lot of people in Israel that are concerned as much as we are.
Anderson:
Can you just expand on Jordan’s role in promoting stability?
King Abdullah II:
Jordan has been a refuge to early Christians and to Jesus Christ himself, who came here escaping persecution. This is, I think, something that we have always inherited. My great-great grandfather Sharif Hussein gave [sanctuary] to Armenian Christians that were looking for safety and security. And recently over the past few years, as you have watched, the actions of Daesh in Syria and Iraq, looking after Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians here. If we don’t have any Christians in the region, I think that is a disaster for all of us. They are part of our past, they are part of our present, and they must be part of our future.
Anderson:
You have plans to develop and protect this site or the site adjacent to where we are as we speak, in line with your role towards holy sites under the Hashemite Custodianship. Talk to me about these plans.
King Abdullah II:
This is a UNESCO Heritage Site and needs to be protected; we want to make sure that this is preserved for centuries to come. What will happen adjacent to it is what is the support to this wonderful, historical, magical place. So, you know, a museum to talk about the history of Christianity to look at creating botanical gardens that grow the ancient flowers and herbs of the region and plants, training centres that allow different churches to come in and teach; something that we can all be proud of, a hundred years from now. I think one of the things that people misunderstand about this place is how inclusive it is. Almost 15 per cent of the visitors that come here are Muslim, because we revere Jesus Christ as the Messiah, and the holy Mary is the holiest and most important of all women in our history. And so this is an opportunity to break down those barriers and to show how proud we are of not only our historical Christian heritage here in Jordan, but the relationship between Christianity and Islam.
Anderson:
How important is this site to Jordan?
King Abdullah II:
From a historical religious point of view, this is Christianity’s third holiest site, so of extreme importance to Jordan. And because of the history it tells of not only one of the first refugees being Jesus, may peace and blessings be upon him, but, you know, the waves of refugees that at least in my time we have seen, I think it started here and it is a story that tells the story of Jordan throughout the ages.
Anderson:
You Majesty, this project is one that will begin, one hopes in 2023. What are your hopes, let’s close this on a positive note. What are your hopes and aspirations for 2023?
King Abdullah II:
At the end of the day, people just want to move on with their lives and feel an opportunity. So, it is how do we write the narrative. So as challenging as 2022 was, and as difficult as the dangers of 2023 are, there is an opportunity for us to move beyond. And I have gotten away from the feeling that—politics are not going to solve all of our problems, it is economic dependency. So these are issues that we have to deal with, Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians. And I believe regional integration, that is going to be, I think, the secret of us being able to break down barriers; when I’m invested in your success because your success is my success, at the end of the day means that we can move forward. Whatever people think about integration of Israel into the region, which is extremely important, that’s not going to happen unless there is a future for the Palestinians. And you’ve seen that recently through the Moroccan football team. And that’s just a sort of slight insight that at the end of the day, whatever the leaders do, if we can’t solve this problem, the streets are naturally going to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. So we need to build as opposed to destroy.
Anderson:
Super. Thank you very much, indeed. Wonderful.
King Abdullah II:
Thank you, Becky.
Anderson:
Thank you very much.
